@Dave...He won't be recalled, we socialists love him.

@Lyle-Well you are the minority and you are welcome to Love him all you want. Its a shame that he has to attend the Universities and influence our youth in such a manner. But thats really all you Libs have is shady cry baby politics.

@Dave...You know us liberals want your children's minds and souls. We will turn them into godless humanists and have them turn on their capitalist parents.

Dave. I've been on this blog many times and feel the same way. I'm in. We've been silent too long.

Dave (and Michael).
The TeaGOP mantra is pull yourself up by your bootstraps-and stop being so lazy.
Start a recall and go stand in the WI weather elements and collect the sigs you need instead of asking for others to do the work for you.

@Keith Best...I didn't know that this was a private fight. You already know that I reject your reference to Illinois. We are not Illinois, they're three times our size. You also know my approach to the fiscal problems; cut expenditures, minor increases in revenues and universalize the sacrifice made by all citizens. If Walker is successfully recalled will you finally admit that his direction didn't have the majorities' mandate? If he survives the recall I will admit to majority endorsement.

I heard Kleefisch was going to come or is she too scared of the Pride Alliance?

Allie- You amaze me!! Oh wait no you don't as you are the A typical unable to think for yourself, left leaning socialist liberal who has had her brain removed. Keep drinking the kool aid and everything will be ok.

Allie, Kleefisch comparing gay marriage to marrying a dog was a horrible thing to do. I know she apologized but I do not trust her and am glad she is being recalled also.

Dave, I think it was Kleefisch who has had her brain removed for making such a comment.

@Morninmist-Well we are a Country of laws and principles and we are also a Country who believes in the Christian God as he is mention in our Constitution and elsewhere. The very basic principles that made this Country and its people so great. So gay marriage is JUST WRONG!!! See thats the problem we are changing and rebuilding the very foundation that has made us who we are. It is very clearly spelled out that marriage is between a man and a women PERIOD!!!!

Just like it is now acceptable to have gays serve in the military and serve our country without fear of retaliation, so too is our country moving in the direction of equality in marriage -the right to marry whomever we love. Your god is not the only god in this country.

...................
Dave

6:30am on Sunday, November 27, 2011

@Morninmist-Well we are a Country of laws and principles and we are also a Country who believes in the Christian God as he is mention in our Constitution and elsewhere. The very basic principles that made this Country and its people so great. So gay marriage is JUST WRONG!!! See thats the problem we are changing and rebuilding the very foundation that has made us who we are. It is very clearly spelled out that marriage is between a man and a women PERIOD!!!!

@Dave...I don't remember the G-d found in our earliest national documents as Christian. Most of the founders were self identified deists which was very much a part of the Age of Reason and the Enlightenment.

Marriage in any form is a recognized legal contract between two people/two families. As such it has nothing to do with religion or mythological national values. It has everything to do with civil rights. For the Lt. Governor to come out and make a statement devaluing the humanity of 10% of the population is wrong no matter how you look at it.

To fully understand the biblical doctrine, one has to go to the original texts and how they are interpreted. Marriage during Judaic history was more concerned with property laws than it was any type of religious proscriptions. Marriage represented their form of social safety net and was deemed the vehicle to maintain social stability.

As a heterosexual Jewish male, I am not threatened, my family is not threatened and my culture is not threatened with leagally recognized same sex marriage. Just because it exists doesn't mean anyone who doesn't wish so has to participate. Please reconsider your position and look at it as a means of allowing full citizenship to all.

Well my God is the same God as many who live in this Country and refer to themselves as Christians. We all believe in the same Bible as did my parents and their parents and so on and so on. It clearly states within the scriptures that marriage is between a man and women for the purpose of bearing children!! PERIOD!!!!

@Dave...One must look to what part of the bible you're referring to. The Apostle Paul the founder of Christianity actively supported celibacy and if one could not remain celibate then they should marry. In Judaism it is a commandment that one should marry. There was an early departure on the part of Paulinists from their Judaic roots. As I said before, marriage and children, ie - sons, from the beginning has been about property rights and the stabilization of social order. The marriage laws and traditions can be traced back to before written records and the written records from Mesopotamia confirm this. Your first mistake is to assume that because something is found in the bible has been correctly interpreted and that the bible is inerrant. Any serious bible scholar will challenge that notion. The G-d that you claim is the same G-d of your progenitors is also seriously flawed. Over the generations the understanding of G-d has changed and is viewed through a different lens. Therefore, your interpretation is, by necessity, much different than your forebearers.

@Lyle-Thus leading us to where we are today. Our Country is a mess as is the entire World from your way of thinking!!! Gays and Lesbians go against Gods plan. If the creator did not intend man and women to be together we would all be the same. Your ideology and way of thinking has lead us to where we are today as a Nation and a World.!!!

@Dave...I don't quite understand your implications. Our nation and the world is a mess because of my perspective and beliefs; I seriously doubt it. In any case, I want to ask you one simple question; if G-d is the creator of the universe, then why did he create so many as homosexuals, which as you state is against G-d's plan? It is proven that gays and lesbians are not made but born with their sexual preference. Please explain.

@Lyle-Okay Lyle if you say so. Just like rapists and murderers are born as such. Yes it is this progressive lefty liberal ideology that is destroying this great nation. The very ideology your great President Stands for.
Your comment that it has been proven comes from some of the same progressive scientists who are proclaiming global warming. That nasty ole c02. Hmmmm if I am not mistaking c02 is something that all plant life requires for living.

@Dave...Sorry, I don't buy into murderers and rapists are born that way, I am not a "hard determinist" and I do believe that human beings have freel will and choice. I appreciate you going beyond Christianity and G-d in this discussion.

If you believe in free will, then it is difficult to assign any ideology as the antecedent to people's behavior. However, it is a factor amongst many others. It is clear that human behavior is a combination of nuture and nature and circumstances.
My ideology teaches tolerance, justice and true equal opportunity. I also, profess a value that people have a right to have their basic life sustaining needs met. I don't see this as being revolutionary or out of sync with our ascribed national values.

I see what we are going through as a process of change. There is always chaos and an unstable social order until we have worked out the new rules and order. Be patient my friend, it isn't as bad as it looks.

@Lyle-I will never give in to the progressives ideology of becoming a socialist nation!! I nor most American citizens!! It sure has done Greece well along with Spain, France, the UK. No Thanks Lyle

@Dave...I hate to be the one to burst your bubble, but we are already living in a socialist nation. We are not Greece, Italy, Spain or the UK and we will never be. We have a great deal in common with the UK as a service oriented society rather than a production society like we used to be.

@Lyle-My Point exactly. Well people are starting to wake up Thanks to the super radical progressive Obama. Gov Walker is a Patriot thus the progressives want to punish him. America is waking up!! This Country has been about God the Christian God for hundreds of years and that will never change!!

@Lyle-And at the rate and direction we are heading yes we are not Greece YET!!! We are on our way!!!

@Dave....Obama a progressive? He's a pragmatist first and foremost as president. If he was such a progressive why is the progressive left so critical? The nation has changed and it was written in our constitution that the government shall not establish any religion. Your personal relation with your G-d is your relationship and shouldn't not be projected on everyone else.

As far as Walker being a patriot; how many years did he serve in military service?

@Lyle-Im guessing as many years as the current leader of the free world. Serving in the Military does not equal a true patriot in all cases!!

He is a progressive and he is a very smart one at that. He understands that if he continues down his radical path there is not a chance for a second term, thus he sides with the moderates and conservatives just enough to suck them in.
Obama is a snake, a wolf in sheeps clothing. His healthcare is unconstitutional forcing individuals to purchase something.
This is about Walker and his fight for the People of this Great State!! He is a man of his word and the left can't handle that so they have to try and recall him. Period!!!

@Dave.....I don't expect our leaders to have served in the military, but I am very skeptical of anyone who claims to be a patriot or attests someone else is. Cowards, tyrants, scoundrels, and charlatans wrap themselves in the flag of patriotism. Claiming to be a patriot is easy, but actually being one is another thing entirely.

@Lyle-Yes I would have to agree. I just do not agree with Obamas agenda or policy? He is to aligned with Mr Soros who we both know has denounced his Jewish Heritage and yet is a figure that too many on the view as a good man. Just as they do with Mr Van Jones a proclaimed communist.
I just feel Walker is being persecuted for doing what many in Wisconsin elected him to do.

@Dave...Yes, Obama is smart; that much I will agree with you on. I don't agree with everything he has attempted to do, but given the circumstances I can't think of anyone who could have handled it better.

The problem with the governor is that he isn't particularly bright, but he's politically adept. As Professor Mordecai Lee has stated, "Walker is a natural politician". His recall is all about overreach and moving us into a "soft glove tyranny". He has grabbed more power than any previous chief executive of this state. the recall is clearly about stopping our slide into tyranny.

@Lyle-That is where we disagree. See I feel Gov Walker is my voice. As a taxpayer my voice has been silent for way to long. Under previous leadership ie Doyle my taxes did nothing but rise year after year. This is nothing but a big union stance. Really has nothing to do with collective bargaining as much as it does becoming a right to work state.
If it was such an attack on the people then why are Federal Employees not protected by the very same collective bargaining rights. As a tax payer i feel what Walker did was very fair. This was all done without having to lay anybody off raise taxes. Which by the way we pay plenty in taxes!! Coming from Colorado in comparison this State is heavily taxed.

@Dave....I would agree that George Soros is a secular or cultural Jew and not a religious Jew; that's no big deal. The problem I have with Soros is the same as I have with the Koch Brothers, Bradley Foundation, DeVoss Foundation, Prince Foundation, etc; too much money pushed into politics. Money is the corruptor and I don't trust politicians sponsored by big money. Walker is a big money recepient and he owes too many, he can't be trusted. Who owns who.

@Dave....I understand your disappointment when you came to Wisconsin from Colorado. Colorado has one of the lowest overall tax burdens in the US. I don't know where in Colorado you came from, but if you came from Western Colorado instead of the Eastern Slope the difference would be even greater.

I'm afraid that you may find yourself disappointed by the governor since his allegiance isn't to people like you and me, but those who funded him to get in office. We'll see in a year or so if he has been able to deliver on his promises.

@Lyle-Well once again I have to agree with you on several points. I lived both on the western slope and the denver area. Although some things in general were and are more expensive, overall Colorado was def less expensive as far as its tax base. Property Tax for one is a 1/3 of what I pay in this area. Yes I realize that Milwaukee, Waukesha Counties are 2 of the highest. For me its really not about the Left the Right or those in the middle or anywhere in between. Because the left typically feeds from the pocckets of the big unions and the right from the big corporations.
I actually like Ron Paul because I feel he is honest and speaks the truth from the heart. I do not believe he feeds from anyones pockets. As with Walker I felt as County Executive he did a fairly good job.

@Dave...I lived in Utah prior to coming here and the differences between the West and here are significant. As far as Walker as County Executive he did more harm than good. He attempted to push through privatizing services and failed. He destroyed the Milwaukee County Mental Health Complex and was never held accountable. He is quite unqualified for holding the governor's office. He's been a professional politician all his adult life except for two years when he worked in Red Cross Marketing. He's always dined at the public trough and yet he demonizes public workers.

@Keith-My question exactly. Other than the lefty libs feel threatened by his leadership abilitys. A man of action!!!

@Keith Best...Recall is the best medicine against Walker's overreach and tyranny. Conservatives are convinced that Walker is the messiah. Let's keep it real and understand the Walker chose one path out of many available and it happened to be the most draconian.

I thought that the 'Messiah' title was already taken by Obama...

If Walker's policies are considered 'draconian' and 'tyranny', I'd hate to hear what adjectives would have been used had Walker's policies not been implemented and Wisconsin had lost thousands of public sector jobs last month...

@Lyle-Why because he disgrees with your way of thinking? Hmmmmmm seems we put up with that for 8 years when Doyle was in control and when the left controlled both sides of the fence. I did not see any of the right running across the border during that time. Your way of thinking is truely amazing. Now your plan is to target the stores and the people who shop them? Hmmmmmmmmm sounds like big union thugish tactics to me.

@Lyle Ruble--What a pleasant surprise, hearing from the guy who once chastised me for commenting on Shorewood Patch. Lyle, what would be your plan to fix the state's fiscal crisis from where we were, similar to Illinois?

@Cow-Yes can you imagine had Walker not done what he did? Then all the hundreds of public workers getting the pink slip rather than having to contribute a small amount. He would have been EVIL!! The masses would have wanted to hang him from the cross.

@Dave...Your assigning me attributes and claims that I never made. I never supported boycotts and deemed them ineffective.

@Lyle-But that is what your side is planning.

@Lyle Ruble-- If Gov. Walker loses a recall I will admit that the union leaders were able to bully the people of this state.

Ah, yes, I see you are all prepared to put your best TeaGOP vile lying spin on the situation (If it should happen). No surprise.

..........
Keith Best

11:54am on Wednesday, November 23, 2011

@Lyle Ruble-- If Gov. Walker loses a recall I will admit that the union leaders were able to bully the people of this state.