Your conjecturing comment explains the attitude of the headline, and that this was not an unbiased news piece. It was an opinion piece. Why do all this work with all the time and effort, and make it into just another opinion blog?

@ Dirk... Careful, you are questioning the mission statement and the total body of work of CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBS, The New York Time, The Washington Post, and the Journal Sentinel.

Yes, let's remove others who have another opinion from yours - since your reality is the only reality.

Opinion? You think that someone who claims Obama won that debate is offering an opinion? You are a fool! That is my opinion. The sun will come up in the east tomorrow and Obama LOST that debate by a wide margin are facts.

Gee Flickinger, even Michael Moore admitted Obama got his clock cleaned. Have you taken your meds today?

The only way Mitt Romney can hurt me now is by lowering the standard deduction and personal exemptions. As it is, I pay federal income tax on a gross income only slightly over $30K yearly. The arithmetic of Romney's tax plan just doesn't add up to the sort of tax cuts on 'small business' that will lead to more and higher-paying jobs while reducing our deficit.

I've got some math that doesn't add up. Obama " I will cut the national debt in half"

He added 60%

It is now over $16 trillion plus interest

x60% is not = (50%)

I don't know, maybe it's that southern black math I don't understand.

@Steve -- You have the national debt confused with the deficit. Compromised intellects tend to conflate the two.

Hmmm . . . and it would seem that would include Paul Ryan. http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2012/09/04/ryan-16-trillion-debt-worst-obamas-broken-promises

Barack Obama did say he would cut the deficit in half. That's very different from the national debt. At least make an attempt to quote correctly.

X 160% = $16 Trillion
X 50% = $5 Trillion
So just $11 Trillion higher than promised. Math is fun, but depressing.

Fair enough Randy.
So what grade would you give Barack Hussein on cutting the deficit?
Year 1, 2, 3, and 4?

I would grade him as follows:
F
F+
F-
F- -

"Fair enough"? I call out Steve and Paul Ryan about lying and misquoting President Obama-- because the debt is a very different thing from the deficit -- and that's all you have to say?

We can only grade him on the deficit in comparison to how well John McCain would have done under the same circumstances, and that's conjecture.

Randy: I addressed the sublect that you corrected him on. You don't want to talk Debt, then when you bring up deficit- you avoid answering a direct question related to it.
It is REALLY easy to do.
Pick A,B,C,D, or F
McCain is no more on the ballot than Nancy Pelosi.
Avoid conjecture and give a direct answer.

No, Craig, I was pointing out that you can't take people like Steve seriously because they don't know the difference between the debt and the deficit. I find Paul Ryan a bit more troubling, because he does know the difference, so he had to be lying outright.

I don't like deficits any more than you do, but no one seemed to mind them when it was George W. Bush growing them.

""Reagan," Vice President Dick Cheney famously declared in 2002, "proved deficits don't matter.""

You made the bait and switch Randy, so just answer the question...nevermind.
There you go again.

He hasn't cut the deficit in half either. Add them all up year after year and we have 16+trillion in debt plus interest. I consider that serious. Your only defense is to trying a define a deficit and a debt.

FY 2012*: $1,327 billion
FY 2011: $1,300 billion
FY 2010: $1,293 billion
FY 2009: $1,413 billion

And don't start with me that 2009 was a Bush fiscal year. Obama stuck his stimulus boondoggle in there and continues to lie he has no responsibility until Oct. 2009

"He hasn't cut the deficit in half either."

Neither did George W. Bush, and that was in a much better economy.

All I ask is that you try to be accurate in what you say and quote. And if Romney wins, I'll be waiting to call you on it in four years if those twelve million jobs (or whatever he promised) don't materialize. Walker's 250 million sure haven't.

@Randy1949 -

When did Bush promise to cut the deficit in half by the end of one of his terms?

Obama did make such a "pledge" though, remember?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jJvkkNmR_8

Oh Randy, there you go again.

Randy: There IS help there IS hope- there is Romney and Ryan!
You don't have to feel the doom and gloom, vote for R&R and you will feel better about tomorrow.

In conclusion Randy will give Obama a pass on anything. Pledge to cut the deficit in half yet you increase it year after year. Why would you want to support failure? Jobs are one thing, as a business owner we all know that it is the climate that helps or hurts us but we really are the ones that do the creating. But the spending, that is directly on the federal gov. And this guy now knows only one way, increase.

It's in the books, it's proven he is a liar. I hold you responsible for this irresponsible increase in debt.

@Steve -- You're just sore because you got caught repeating a lie to make things look worse than they really are. You and Paul Ryan. I do it when I see someone on the left doing it too.

Still stuck on the debt/deficit thing? Further down this thread, you accuse him of not knowing the difference between the two. Now you accuse him of getting caught making things seem worse than they really are.
Defecit=bad
Debt=bad
all together now...
there you go again

6 trillion added to the debt speaks on it's own. That is not a lie. That is on your boy Obama

@Steve -- http://zfacts.com/p/318.html

The line is actually flattening out over Bush Jr's rate of increase in the last two years of his administration -- and those weren't happening in a recession.

@Randy
I think it is more telling who controls the House of Representatives. Since that house is controlling the origin of spending, you see that since 1980 when the Dems have controlled the house, that spending has exploded. Under Reagan it exploded because the trickle down worked so well that government revenues increased so greatly that Dems had extra money to spend. It came down when the Republicans controlled the House under Clinton. It went up slightly when Bush started the wars and them when Dems took over in 2006 it spiked again. Now today we have the Dems refusing to implement a budget at all so the Republicans can do nothing about it.

@Steve and JRH -- I just found this quote by George W. Bush, who said in February 2001:

" Many of you have talked about the need to pay down our national debt. I listened, and I agree. We owe it to our children and grandchildren to act now, and I hope you will join me to pay down $2 trillion in debt during the next 10 years. At the end of those 10 years, we will have paid down all the debt that is available to retire. That is more debt, repaid more quickly than has ever been repaid by any nation at any time in history."

http://www.justfacts.com/nationaldebt.asp

@Randy1949 -

OK, so Bush did want to pay down the debt, but failed miserably at accomplishing this goal, and in fact went in the exact opposite direction, just as Obama has done. Hoffa never voted for Bush. Hoffa voted for Nader in both 2000 and 2004.

So, how does this change the situation for Obama exactly?

Bush isn't running. And the Bush era big government policies have been repudiated by today's Republican Party - why do you think neither Bush or Cheney were invited to the GOP convention?

BTW - Of most interest from your link is the that Bush vetoed 12 spending bills, 4 of which were overridden by Congress and enacted anyway. So at least Bush was trying.

Obama, on the other hand, only vetoed 2 spending bills thus far, neither of which were overridden by Congress.

So Bush gets overridden 4 times, Obama gets overridden 0 times, and yet you guys are still complaining that Obama is the one who got stuck with a Congress that doesn't want to work with him?!?!

Looks like your link proves the exact opposite of this is true, doesn't it?!?!

Hoffa voted for Nader?

TWICE???

Good for you, Hoffa. I think I need to start taking back the mean things I have said about you.
"Today, Nader writes and lectures on the growing “imperialism” of multinational corporations and of a dangerous convergence of corporate and government power. With the passage of autocratic trade treaties like the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) and the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT), this merger of corporate and government interests is escalating. Since the 1970s, Nader has advocated for the total abolition of nuclear and fossil fuel energy in favor of solar, tidal, wind, and geothermal sources because of environmental, labor, national security, disaster preparedness, foreign policy, and government accountability concerns. A magazine founded by Nader in 1980, the Multinational Monitor, tracks the global intrusion of multinational corporations and their impact on developing nations, labor, and the environment. "

My primary source for that is Nader's website. Which, according to Hoffa, is a legit primary source.

@FreeThought Troy -

Hoffa was a registered member of the Reform Party. Admittedly, Hoffa should have voted for Pat Buchanan in 2000, but the Party had already decided by the time of the election that Nader would be their candidate in 2004, thus the vote for Nader in 2000 was in an effort to guarantee Nader federal matching funds for his 2004 campaign.

Hoffa is no longer a member of the Reform Party.

The media have not been speaking positively for Barack Obama, beginning with the MSNBC pundits last night. The only 'last word' the media will give him is to point out the various untruths Mitt Romney told last night.

"Obama arrived in Denver at 2 p.m. today — just a few hours before the debate started," Gore said on his network, Current.

"Romney did his debate prep in Denver. When you go to 5,000 feet, and you only have a few hours to adjust, I don't know..."

@Steve -- Have you ever experience altitude sickness? I have, out in Colorado back in 1962, and that's something I never considered

Blair, I listened to the entire debate, but I didn't memorize it word-for-word. I believe Obama asked the moderator (not mediator) to move on was when the moderator ask Obama if he wanted a chance to answer Romney's last word in a segment where Obama was supposed have the last word.

Perhaps Obama and Romney should be wearing shock collars in futre debates. That would definately help the moderator control things.

I've been to Denver regularly and never experienced any issues with the altritude. However, I did once pick up my brother at the Denver airport, drive to Rocky Mountain National Park and hike up to 12K+ elevation and my brother had a very bad headache from the same-day change in altitude from Hudson's 800 feet to RMNP's 12K+.

Maybe Michelle was ripping on Obama for putting the debate before their anniversary? Since anniversaries tend to make on think about the past, maybe Obama got to thinking about how their life has changed in 20 years?

hey Obama, next time debate like your lady parts depend on it.

Which of my posts are you replying to? It's so hard to tell. I was watching MSNBC too, by the way.

If you were paying attention, Obama refuted Romney decisively, twice, in his quiet way. But that was only visible to those who were looking for substance over style.

@Randy1949 -

Could you please explain Obama's plan, as the math just doesn't add up.

Obama debated Hillary 20+ times and Hillary seemed to win them all. In the end, Obama got the nomination and won the Presidency. It doesn't really matter who wins the debates. It matters who wins the election.

Of course, the media loves a comeback story and Obama Inc. knows this. They will be noodling over the Romney's voodoo economics for a couple weeks in the media and Mother Jones will dig up a tape where Paul Ryan and Romney discuss the free-market beauty of Calcutta where people are allowed to die in the street. The compassionate Romney will tell Ryan it's the government's job to pickup the dead from the streets and Ryan will say that is better privatized and companies winning the contract can grind the dead street bodies into dog food and make a bigger profit.

Randy, what does it feel like lose another election? I remember your whining and crying about Walker, how do you feel about losing another?

Could you please explain Obama's plan, as the math just doesn't add up.

Sure, Hoffa, once you explain exactly which deductions Mitt Romney plans to do away with and how much that will offset his proposed across the board tax-rate cuts. In hard figures, mind you.

@Pennypacker -- Gloating doesn't become anyone. You are honestly an example of the worst the Right has to offer.

Jesus Randy, there you go again.

And there you go, thinking you're Ronald Reagan. You're not.

Rando1849: This may come as a total shock to you but people can and do answer questions directly without changing the subject.
I never have thought of myself as Ronald Regan, but it is a hell of a compliment to even mention the possibility.
In case you didn't know: People have used that phrase for decades before and after the Great Ronald Reagan. There you go again is so very fitting for you, because you sidestep the truth and divert attention with silly spelling corrections and nonsence of the like. There was a time when I repected you, despite your differing opinion. Maybe the phrase strikes a raw nerve, or feel like rubbing salt on an open wound. I don't know who hurt you so deeply, but I am certain it wasn't me.
Carry on!

I've lost your respect, Craig? Oh lord, I can't go on living.

Tell ya what Randy, I know you have issues with getting affordable healthcare so i will give you a free psychoanalysis. You have been showing a great deal of contempt when presented with facts that you can not repudiate. This is indicative of a much deeper problem than anger issues, my belief is you are becoming enlightened. You know Obama is the wrong choice but you refuse to accept it.
Let go of your old paradigms, and accept the reality. You are more conservative than you thought. Do it now -before the election.

WTF??

Poor Poor Bren, you have not learned a thing from the Walker Recall.

Bren calls it a tie? I guess that means Romney cleaned Obama's clock! Gotta love all the cool excuses Bren lays out for his guy. That kool-aid is some powerful stuff. Hope the hangover on November 7th doesn't keep you home from work.

@Bren -

Were you watching the same debate as the rest of us???

Romney clearly won, thus America won!!!

Obama was given 5 additional minutes to speak over Romney as it was. Had Romney not fought for his time as he did, Lehrer would have given Obama an additional 15 minutes over Romney - would that have been fair?

And Hoffa wholly disagrees with your assessment of the format. It was a real debate, permitting Romney to finally do what the MSM has failed to do over the last four years - actually confront Obama about his failures and broken promises!

You're actually so desperate to spin this that you implicitly play the race card, by throwing it out there, while claiming not to be playing the race card - that's wholly comical!

Get ready for an even greater disappointment on November 6 than you felt on June 5th, cause Romney will prevail just as Walker did!

ROMNEY/RYAN/THOMPSON 2012!!!

Bren has made a couple of cogent points to seriously consider.

However - let us call last night for what it is. Romney needed a big night. He prepped for it like no end. He needed to go for it, and he certainly did. He bullied the moderator and flat out ignored at least two of his very direct questions. He even bullied the president - a formula that has had great success for challengers in the past. The president feels he can't get into it with a mere challenger and loses the high ground. Romney did what he absolutely needed to do. He was super amped up. The gestures and the bouncing. He was caffinated (I thought Mormons couldn't do that - I am sure he was just super motivated) - almost to the point of manic. But he never reached it. He put on a good performance.

It will be an interesting few weeks. I am positive Romney will keep up the energy. He has to. It is up to the President to match it.

It's gonna stay close everyone. Hang On!

@FreeThought Troy -

If Romney hadn't "bullied the moderator," as you call it, Obama would have ended up with an even greater disproportionate amount of time than he ended up already receiving.

Are you saying that's what should have happened?

@Bren and FreeThought
I am going to assume that your love of Obama extends beyond politics and as such they could have placed a rock painted with the Obama symbol as a stand in for the man himself and you both would agree that Obama spoke more clearly.

As for bullying, when Obama (who already had more time as Hoffa points out) demands to get his 5 seconds back and then rambles for a minute, was he not bullying the moderator? Also, if you read the transcript, Jim actually gave Obama the answer on the tax question as he had failed to answer the question the previous 2 times it had been brought up.

I know it sucks, but stop rationalizing your addiction to Obama and start realizing he is an empty suit/chair/President.

Nice work, Hoffa.

Glad you were able to snatch an insult from the grasp of a compliment.

Obama was off. He didn't call Romney on the fast and lose interpretations of his own campaign. Romney was on. He was super on. Yes. He was fast and lose on his own campaign (what he said last night vs. what he has been saying this past year), but hey, it's Romney. We should all be used to him saying whatever he needs to say to get what he wants - then doing who knows what...

But hey, Romney did what he needed to do. His campaign was on the ropes and did a really good job last night.

No matter my opionion about what he should have done, or the idiotic claim Obama had more time to talk if he didn't interrupt (??? - huh???)

Romney had a good night.

I was watching the same debate and I saw the same Romney. Aggressive behavior like bullying the moderator, (including threatening to fire him!), intentionally overspeaking, lack of respect for the sitting President in snide repartees, etc. Well, we can see why the crude reactionaries that perpetually loiter around this site thought Romney won. If Romney had come out and physically coldcocked Obama, they would have thought even more that Romney was the better. Declasse.
And NO wonder Romney offends other countries when mistakenly allowed to travel by his handlers.

Why don't you Obama apologists just follow the lead of one of your party's elder statesmen, Al Gore? The inconvenient truth was that it was the altitude. Romney got the jump on your crush by arriving in the area a day earlier.

Bren must be at the same altitude as Obama.

Craig - love the answer.

The strategy of using a moderator instead of having a cage fight is to ensure equal time, and an orderly and civil discourse. I don't believe any of these occurred in Debate #1. I didn't conduct a precise word count, but my takeaway was: Romney-Loud; Obama and Moderator-Nonplussed. I am very disappointed.

Among other inappropriate remarks thrown out (in addition to talking over and ignoring the moderator), I also thought it crass of Romney to discuss cuts to PBS in front of a venerated, PBS-employed moderator.

As I wrote above, I hope that the debates that follow are structured in such a way to ensure that future bouts of verbal diarrhea are contained. This is the United States of America, not a circus sideshow. We the People deserve better.

@Bren -

Once again, if it wasn't for Romney fighting for the time, Lehrer would haven given Obama an extra 15 minutes over Romney. The way it was, Obama was allowed an extra 5 minutes over Romney.

The word count has nothing to do with this - if Obama wasn't managing his time effectively because he doesn't have an understanding of the issues without his teleprompter, that's his own fault!

"Among other inappropriate remarks thrown out (in addition to talking over and ignoring the moderator), I also thought it crass of Romney to discuss cuts to PBS in front of a venerated, PBS-employed moderator."

So, Romney tells the brutal and honest truth, and you condemn him for it!?!? Hoffa sure wishes that Obama would have told the truth in 2008 instead of the barrage of LIES that he fed us.

Apparently, Bren prefers lies to the truth - not really a surprise.

Bren is right about one thing though - we the American people do deserve better than Barack Obama!

ROMNEY/RYAN 2012!!!

Romney was very aware that Lehrer might be offended, but Romney still had the guts to speak the truth. Romney did apologize to Lehrer directly as he was making the comments about PBS. Not crass at all...

JimBob, your hilarious; it's funny that people in the know are scrambling but your sitting back reading Daily Kooks thinking everything is rosy. I take back the hilarious; it's actually really scary.

True, they don't seem to know the difference between the deficit and the debt. But Paul Ryan certainly ought to.

@ Jim Bob. I LOVE Pro Wrestling. That's a great metaphor.

Besides, I haven't been close to much campaign news today. I am sure the Romney campaign has spent the day taking back 99% of everything he said.

"Gov. Romney believes any and all regulation is bad. He never said he believed SOME regulation is good - esp. in the banking industry. I know it sounds like he said it twice and if you replay the tape, he actually did say it, but that's just the liberal media bias. You know - reminding everyone our candidate speaks through both sides of his mouth. That's biased."

Jim Bob, Randy1491, Bren - where does the sun come up in your world?

Ima, the sun in my world comes up where it best warms my tea. How say you...

@Ima -- Randy1491, eh? The sun rises in the east in my neighborhood, to the north or south, depending on the season. And guess what -- you don't sail off the edge of the earth if you head into the sunset. How about you?

Ima, the daily miracle of sunrise suffuses my sun room with a golden-tinged glow from the east. How I enjoy my early morning coffee listening to the cheery greetings of the birds as the sun rises. This ritual lightens my heart as I consider the possibilities of the new day ahead, and the hopes of a new comment from you.

Jim Bob, Randy1491, Bren - I am glad you guys called/text/emailed/rolled over each other to check in on how you would respond - very cute.

Which one of you wants to wipe the blood of the USA Ambassador off Obama's hands?

All you birthers are complete fools

@FreeThought
Of the colleges that HE mentioned; which one did he claim Obama was born at?? I don't believe that HE claimed he was born anywhere.

If your ability to think matched your monicker, you might consider that Obama claimed to be foreign born in order to get the affirmative action benefits. That Obama lied to claim that he was not born in Hawaii in order to get into a college his grades would have kept him out of.

H.E., would you consider the legacy program at Yale an entitlement program? Our previous president got into Yale because members of his family have graduated from that Ivy League institution since 1844. It certainly wasn't his GPA...

Bren, are you serious? You make more excuses than anybody on here. As long as it fits your weak and shallow thought process.

Good for you FreeThought Troy - you earn massive respect on these boards when you call out uncivil behavior from your own side!

Troy, do Mormons really go to another planet when they die? Does it have a name.

Do you know if Mormons have something like confession. Catholics have confession and Ryan no doubt goes on Saturday afternoon to confess all his lies of the week so he can go to Communion on Sunday.

Maybe Mormons have something like an Etch-a-sketch of the soul? It apparently allows them to say one thing for the past 666 yesterdays and wake up the next day saying something completely different with a big biscuit-eating grim to boot.

All is far in love, war, business and politics...

Jim Bob - You get your OWN planet (not you, of course!) which you can probably name anything you want, or it may already have a name. The theology becomes somewhat vague at that point. There you can probably impose any kind of imaginary economy you want, as long as it is free market based and very low taxes for rich people.
There is no confession i can recall, except Mormons stand up and "give their testimony" where I have heard a lot of confessing I was not that interested in hearing.
I really do not understand how being disingenuous fits with being a modern Mormon, but Mormons have scam artists just like any other people.

Dirk is an anti Mormon bigot! Surprise Surprise! Dirk are you also a KKK member?

Kolob is a star or planet described in Mormon scripture. Reference to Kolob is found in the Book of Abraham, a work published by Joseph Smith, Jr., the founder of the Latter Day Saint movement.
According to the traditional, literal LDS interpretation of the Book of Abraham, Kolob is an actual star or planet in this universe that is, or is near, the physical throne of God

I didn't read Dirk's comments as an Anti-Mormon bigot. It was Anti-Romney.

I am not an Anti-Mormon bigot. I am an Anti-Religion Bigot.

Is the planet Kolob more crazy than some other worldly heaven no one can find, but don't worry, it's there for all true believers? No. It's just as crazy, though.

Oh, sorry. I copy/pasted from Wikipedia.

And before y'all bust me out for sourcing WIkipedia, I know, I know. It's not the most credible source in the world, but I never claimed to be a Mormon expert.

I am an expert at Snarky cuts to religion.

Free thought - WTF? Where do you come up with this stuff? If you like it that much - Delta is ready when you are. Chavez is ready.

Which plan? Economic, education, health care, military, energy? There are a lot of plans. Perhaps you can explain Romney's $5 trillion tax cut plan while you are at it.

@Jim Bob -

Hoffa already did explain Romney's plan above. Why don't you start with Obama's plan to balance the budget.

Actually the plan is easy. Spend like a drunken sailor and hope to hell nothing hits the fan until AFTER the next administration takes office.

Yes, tax cuts, a tax rebate/refund, two wars, an expensive Medicare drug plan and Medicare Advantage. The only problem was that it hit the fan three months before the next guy took office.

@Randy1949 -

Again, for the fourth or fifth time now, still waiting for you to explain the math of Obama's plan!

No, Hoffa, you go first. Explain how Romney's plan is going to jump-start the economy and generate new revenue without lowering taxes on the job creators.

@Randy1949 -

Romney's plan encourages small business growth and expansion. Obama's plan punishes small business growth and expansion. Romney's plan provides certainty in the marketplace. Obama, ever since taking office, has provided uncertainty in the marketplace. Obamacare kills jobs - not even Obama could refute this FACT last night. Romney is about creating jobs.

Under Romney's plan, corporate taxes go down. And small businesses, like Hoffa's, would also experience a reduced tax burden. Both would have certainty that Obamacare would be killed or reduced to ineffectiveness. Investors would have certainty that cap gains taxes would not be increased. So, investors would invest, businesses would expand and new businesses would start, people would go back to work, those people would get paid and stop draining from the system and instead support the system. And because Romney gives the working/middle class a tax break, they'll have more money in their pockets to spend, which translates to better sales and revenues generated by businesses. And those businesses, with lower tax rates, will have more to re-invest into the economy or pay out to their share holders in profit, who in turn would spend or invest their money back into the marketplace. It creates an explosion of private business growth.

Romney lowers taxes on the corp job creators and middle income job creators like Hoffa. For the people in the middle, their taxes would stay the same.

Your turn!

Randolf: There you go again. What are you going for? A baker's dozen?

Tell ya what, Craig, i'll talk to you again when you have an actual original thought.

My thoughts are my own like them or not. At least I don't deflect when someone calls me out on something I am wrong about. Rather than answering for making a false statement you prefer to call out a spelling error. Deficit/Debt: both are no good Randy. Why you chose to belittle someone for a typo and then not respond to the facts about both is a mystery. Facts seem to be your enemy. Admitting Obama is a failure seems to trigger a break from civility in you. If memory serves me right, you had a hard time swallowing the re-affirmation of Scott Walker as well.
I think it is time you come out of the closet, Randy.
You are far more conservative than you want to admit. It has made you a very angry man. Just vote for some R&R in November so you can enjoy the new year.

Funny - not a single liberal can explain Obama's plan!

No Hoffa,

Liberals are too smart to try to argue with a lunatic whose circular logic and argument style defies all rational thought.

Meaning - you're just not worth it.

Oh, I am the primary source on this one.

Wow, Troy, what a cop-out! You should learn to admit when you're in over your head.

And the "12 million new jobs" that Mr. Romney has promised. Are these hiding in the same corner as Scott Walker's 250,000 new jobs?

Is anyone else as deathly tired of this "I'll say anything to win" foolishness as I am?

@FreeThought Troy -

To the contrary, Hoffa believes that means that liberals can't even attempt to explain Obama's plan because it just doesn't make any sense at all, nor does the math even remotely add up (like the current unemployment numbers)! That's why not even a single member of his own Party voted in favor of Obama's proposed budget!

Otherwise, prove Hoffa wrong and explain it for us, walking us through the numbers. Here's your big chance to prove Hoffa wrong - and you're declining?!?!

At least Hoffa is able to understand and can explain Mitt's plan, as demonstrated numerous times now on the Patch boards!

@Bren -

And yet you believe in Obama's promised job projections? Remember the stimulus - Obama said that it would create 8M shovel ready jobs. So, where are the jobs Mr. President? Later, Obama just laughed it off - "shovel ready wasn't as shovel ready as we expected (laughing)."

And now, Obama has made similar promises about jobs with this stalled American Jobs Act. So, why aren't you tired of all the empty jobs promises, that have proven to be failures, from Obama?

Randy 1949 - try scrapbook.

@Ima Hippee -- Try scrapbook for what, exactly?

@Dirk -

It usually takes more time to undo years of brainwashing!

Exactly Dirk, you Barack Hussein Obama apologists, I mean "supporters" will still believe the Obama-lies and love Obama-care even though it fixed NOTHING.

But that's not what the debate was about. It was about helping those that are undecided and still think for themselves to make a good choice!

Dirk you seem clueless, and ill educated. Let me help you.

Do you truly want to learn?
1. Get your information straight.
2. Stop growing the federal government.
3. Learn the difference between tax rates and tax revenues, then learn the consistent history of lowering tax rates increasing tax revenues by growing the economy and putting more people back to work.

ace - Hey, you are sooo educated! Your list looks like something Bush would write on the blackboard at his library in an empty meeting room, as no one showed up.. Passe and so boring.

The objective for Obama and Romney was not to convert the supporters of their respective opponent. The objective was to gain a foothold on the mushy middle. Romney's performance last night was more effective in that regard. If one weren't able to ascertain that on their own as a result of viewing the debate, those considered knowledgable in that regard (on both ends of the political spectrum) were pretty much unanimously of that opinion. The same folks discounting the extent to which that matters would be making exactly the opposite argument had it been Obama who came out on top.

You guys have to be getting used to losing by now. Your ideas and platforms can not be defended once implemented. It's OK, in business we know when to change tactics. But this is why we are good leaders, we know when things are not working and when to change course.

Liberalism's clock was cleaned last night. But it will always have it's supporters. Every failed regime always has those last soles hanging on until the bitter end.

That is ironic, isn't it?

Every dollar counts - especially when your borrowing money just to pay the bills you already have and the interest on your accumulated debt!

This is no more or no less a waste of time than any of the other threads that have appeared here over time. If the shoe were on the other foot, we'd have Obama supporters calling it the final nail in Romney's coffin and praising the brilliance of Obama. And I doubt you'd be going out of your way to label it a waste of time.

@Lyle -

The topic of the board poses the question - "Who won the debate?"

How could you honestly not expect there to be a bunch of partisan BS?!?!

As far as "the truth is already being fact checked" is concerned, Hoffa hopes that you mean individually by the voters, as the so-called professional fact-checkers on both sides cannot be trusted to be non-partisan.

The only way to find out the TRUTH in this REALITY, is to research the PRIMARY SOURCE FACTS for yourself, perform your own analysis, and come to your own conclusions.

Americans need to stop being lazy and permitting others to dictate their preferences for them.

Socialism is dead in the USA Lyle. We experienced it here in WI and it is spreading. The cancer you have inflicted on this county has a cure. Accept it. The cure it eminent.

I didn't make a partisan comment, but it's being treated as such.
@Steve...Socialism hasn't even begun yet, how can you declare its death? If you are referring to SSI and Medicare then you are stating that Romney/Ryan are going to end the programs?

If winning the debate means butting in, acting rude and lying at least 28 times, then Romney won the debate.

Too bad for him this is a series of debates, and Mitt has shown all his cards. As the line goes in "A Lion in Winter", "you have shown me everything and I have shown you nothing. That, in these old eyes, is wining boy."

Unless you can deliver a haymaker, it is not a good strategy in a fight to land the first punch.

Please, be smug and complacent.

"Smug and complacent". That pretty much describes Obama's performance on Wed. night and the attitude of folks like you, Keith. It's a real race, not the cakewalk you guys envisioned. Yet another case of poor judgement, no doubt the result of a sense of entitlement. Keep it up and you'll really have something to belch up stomach acid over in November.

Lyle you are one of the largest sellers of partisan BS on this board.

@Schmitzy -

Where the hell is Hoffa's fifty ($50)???

Hoffa's starting to dial the number of his collection guys from Detroit! Is that what you want?

Be smart - pay your debts!

Why? Does the charter member of the I Crapped My Pants Over 9/11 Club (before that he was funny) want to kick up the deficit? -- http://ht.ly/effPn

So, how many people does he want to kill by kicking people off of health care. Any of you "Christians" want ti hazard a guess?

@Schmitzy -

Instead of worrying about Dennis Miller, perhaps you should be worrying about paying your own debts and obligations first and foremost - like Hoffa's fifty ($50)!

Keith Schmitz does not pay his debts! He is a lowlife scum-bag con artist, and everyone should properly refer to him as such!

This "Christian" will gladly take care of the needy if Obama will stop taking my money to redistribute as he sees fit.
My hierarchy of support is:
-Family
-Friends and neighbors
-Church and community
-Government

People like Keith Jackass want it exactly opposite.
Vote Romney/Ryan

But if you are gay or a woman - you just don't count as high, huh?

If all of the community, & neighbors were actually taken care of, the government wouldn't need to get involved. But "Christians" just don't hold up thier end.

The minute a Church pays any kind of tax is the minute they should be allowed to have a voice in the government.

By the Way - how did all the Religious folk handle the fact that the Church is part of the 47% that pay no taxes and therefore have a sense of entitlement? How did his church react to that?

FTT, Are you on something?

Naw, Greg.

I just really REALLY don't like religion.

But of course. FOX "News" is for losers.

@Low life scum bag con artist Schmitzy -

Losers are people who don't pay their debts and obligations - like you in regards to Hoffa's fifty ($50)!

No but we all get the impression that you are an old drunk loser who hates the world.

This is what Democratic political insiders look like.

@Low life scum bag con artist Schmitzy -

Don't you ever get the impression that you should pay people the debts and obligations that you owe them - like Hoffa's fifty ($50)???

Mr. Hoffa, do you have a signed agreement concerning that $50? Otherwise I'm getting bored with this. ; )

@Bren -

Don't need a signed agreement - the statute of frauds doesn't apply here! Schmitzy assented to the terms of the agreement here on Patch. And Hoffa assented to Schmitzy's proposed after-the-fact modification to send payment in the mail as opposed to presenting it in persona.

Schmitzy reneged and Hoffa will continue to call Schmitzy out for the LIAR he is until he pays up whether you like it or not!

I don't know but if we give him enough time, and an extra drink he will get the iPad mixed up with his DribblePad.

Keif Schmitz sneaks into the Shorewood Library to use the internet. His library card is maxed out with fines so he sneaks onto the computer when others are done. Keif has a thing about not paying his bills.

Congratulations! You learned how to copy and paste from Obama campaign propaganda emails!

Here, let me link the full text for you:
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2012/10/democrats-fund-raise-on-obamas-inept-performance.php

@Hay Farmer -

And you trust the so-called fact checkers to give it to you straight? You really are drinking the kool-aide, aren't you?

The real LIAR in the debate was Obama!

Hay Farmer:
A good portion of our country will vote democrat, or republican, no matter what. Obama, for instance, in an interview stated that his energy policies would
"necessarily cause energy prices to skyrocket".

And he was proud of that. Yet some idiots, even after hearing the words from his mouth, do not blame him for energy prices.

I guess you fall under that umbrella?

Oak Creek -
Did he say his policies? Or did he say the policies that would be needed to invest as heavily in clean energy as we should?

What speech did he make that claim?

@Frank -

Nice job busting Hay Farmer for being the copy and paste propagandist troll that he is!

@FreeThought Troy -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlTxGHn4sH4

And the crappy debate continues, thanks to Dirk.

@Dirk - there was a professional wrestling referrence earlier in the string. I LOVE pro wrestling just to be clear.

I think that is a great gimmick! I have seen many many gimmicks where a debate ends in screaming and a folding chair, but never with the Book of Mormon. That would be sweet!

Michael Buffer should've have opened the debate with his now infamous "Let's get ready to rumble" over 2Unlimited's "Get Ready for This."

Either that or they should have done entrances like in Rocky IV.

Romney could have entered the debate arena to James Brown's "Living in America," and Obama could have entered to the old Soviet National Anthem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l46t_nrySg4

I don't think the UFC people would like being associated with pro wrestling and folding chairs.

I do see your point, Greg. Most UFC people get all worked up as a UFC fight is not staged like say a pro wrestling match. Considering how many guys are stars in both promotions (like Brock Lesnar), it's tough for them to get too bent about it.

Both promotions court the same audience. I think UFC is going to get legit a whole lot sooner than wrestling - the fact that the promotion doesn't stage fights, I am sure will help...

or do they?

-da-da-daaaaa
(c'mon - that's a little funny, right?)

I think the USARPS League is the up and coming thing, Roshambo is the way to go.

They are grasping at straws JRH....
http://news.yahoo.com/tv-networks-ap-already-called-19-states-101804164.html

@Joseph Robert -

Once again, the sources you cite are all known for their extreme liberal bias - especially ThinkProgress.

Not that any of the so-called 'fact-checkers' have ever proven to be all that accurate, but most of the somewhat reputable ones seem to concur that both Obama and Romney equally misrepresented the full truth during the 90 minute debate, with Obama actually doing just a bit more 'lying' than Romney! Even then, much of the assertions of the so-called 'fact-checkers' are premised upon interpretations, assumptions, conjectures, projections, suppositions, etc as opposed to hard objective truth!

http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/advisor/fact-check-presidential-debate-missteps-155346190.html

Perpahs you need to learn how to research the primary sources for youself, peform your own analysis, and come to your own conclusions instead of being a lemming to the liberal media opinion makers!

Don't believe the self-declared 'fact-checkers' - do your own research of the primary sources and come to your own conclusions!