@H.E. Pennypacker...I didn't mention John Dewey in this piece because it isn't relevant to the current state of public education in the inner city schools. When does John Dewey's political orientation have to do with anything. If you know anything about the man, he was the leader in a branch of psychology that dealt with development by including the impact that society had on the individual. Now, I don't know what you mean classical education. If you mean that education evolved from mandating the teaching of Greek and Latin, I would agree with your statements. However, he developed many of the learning theories that were proven to work. Some of his work fell flat in application. But to claim that he somehow made the curriculum inept; having produced generations of inept public school teachers, I would be more than happy to challenge that. For the most part teachers are taught how to teach; nothing more, nothing less and possess a mastery of the profession. Let's judge teachers as teachers and not some other profession.

Mentioning John Dewey and his hand in this current mess would reveal the truth as to why government run education is a complete failure. Your ignorance is certainly self imposed, continue to spout platitudes and canards Mr Ruble.

@Bob McBride....As usual you cut directly to the core of the matter. Rather than concentrating on the public education system, we should be diligently working on how to solve the motivation problem. I agree that throwing money at the problems have resulted in a waste of resources; but, we can't continue to sit on the sidelines and watch it continue to deteriorate.

Unless we're willing to make tough choices that are going to take away comfort zones and risk accusations of being insensitive, we're never going to get there. We're allowing the bad apples we've created and nurtured to ruin the system for those in those same communities who honestly understand the value of education and its necessity for a successful life. I don't think we're anywhere near being willing to make those choices and I don't see any other way of breaking the cycle, aside from literally taking the kids out of the environment totally and providing a more nurturing environment for them away from their families. I don't see acceptance of that being any more realistic than the alternative.

Wanting to do something because we recognize the problem and having the balls to actually do what's necessary are two different things. Doing something - anything - because we feel we have to do something is what's gotten us where we are today.

You are right, Randy. The impetus has to be done in the home. Parents have to be more on top of their kids' education. The problem is that there are too many homes with only one parent, who has to work to put food on the table. Somehow the parents have to spend more time at home. How this can be done I have no idea.

We let people fail, and we let them suffer the consequences of failure. The entitlement society has taken away much of the motivation for success. It may sound old fashioned, but at some point it is cruel to be kind.

@Michael McCluskey -- I think it's a little more complicated than a parent simply making sure a child does homework. Oddly enough, that is the one thing I never had to do with my son. He did his homework on his own with no prompting from me.

It's more about being an intellectually curious person yourself and instilling that high regard for knowledge into your children. Some families are like this and others aren't.

@Randy1949...All relevant questions. These are the things we should be discussing rather than we are paying teachers too much.

Really, Steve? Your website collects the political information and educational history of customers?

Well, our public-school "graduates" are now voters, and their socialist-indoctrinated mind-set now attracts them to Democrats like moths to a flame. God help this country, because public schools turn out millions of these child-adults who haven't the faintest conception about the values this country was founded on, or have little respect or contempt for those values

You should be applauding this. I now have an extra $1500 to give to the government so that I can pay for another ungrateful public school teachers who thinks 8 months of work is too much. I do this all the time, catch these moochers that come on my website and want to rip off a producer. I should just rename them all to Barrack Obama, make a much easier data base search.

@Steve....How do you know his political affiliation? You've always been immature, but this is a new low.

He wanted something for nothing, just like every socialist democrat voter.

H.E. Pennypacker...Oh c'mon, what kind of tripe is this? To fault John Dewey and Horace Mann is not only ridiculous, but just plain wrong. Please post your evidence supporting the statement.

With your statement of left-leaning politicians and school officials; what are you into conspiracy theories now?

@oak creek resident well said.

(cont)
The end result is the removal of personal responsibility, because the 2 things that instilled responsibility are being pulled out from under the American public. There is no personal responsibility if man only has to answer to himself and there is no responsibility if national pride is dead.

You can’t fix the system without bringing back both

JB – (P – 1)

As usual, JB, you have nailed it again!

The root cause of all our educational issues are lack of GOD – that invisible man in the sky – in our classrooms and schools, and the teaching of AMERICAN EXCEPTIONALISM.

Now we can begin the long and difficult journey toward becoming the most educated American generation, not only on the planet, but also in the entire universe.

Children need to be indoctrinated with the concept of GOD on the very first day of school – regardless of what beliefs their family may have, if any – and that needs to be reinforced, daily, by all teachers and administrators. [Once these children internalize the belief that they are so important – and need to be held responsible for all their actions – because there is this invisible man in the sky, keeping a 24/7 record of everything they do, for everyday of their life, and, he is doing this for all the now 7 billion plus humans on the planet, and their place in the imaginary afterlife – good or bad - will be determined by this meticulously kept record, they will all certainly accept and abide by a strict code of personal responsibility…]

That quaint notion of our founding fathers regarding separation of church and state… just ignore that; “I like Ike” did in the 50’s when he inserted GOD into our Pledge of Allegiance and made congress put IN GOD WE TRUST on all our money… Golly, one would have just really thought that would have solved all this…

JB – (P – 2)

Now, we only teach these children the good things America has accomplished; all books, tapes, digital archives and everything negative needs to be burned and forever eliminated. The concept that only good resides in America, and only good can come from America, should also be reinforced, daily. Hence, if it isn’t American, well, it just can’t be good.

Consequently, particularily in an ever expanding global economy, and globally interconnected world we will have produced the most highly educated, profoundly informed and responsible generation ever… full of stupefying nationalism, narcissism, which would only be surpassed by their monolithic superstition - GOD.

As usual, JB, you have nailed it again!

Hey Johnny boy, we have tried your way for the past few decades and look around. Everything that liberals run is in failure, you guys can't run anything correctly. Public schools are in a shambles, our urban cities are all ghettos, and to top it off, Barack Hussein Obama, your savior, your leader, has the middle east in flames and is spending us into bankruptcy. yes, you liberals are losers in all that you do.

H.E. Pennypacker -

The major reason that Republicans should never be given control of government is simple: They "hate government", NOT just BIG government, but ALL government... their ultimate goal is to destroy government and give all its functions to greedy corporations, without any regulations whatsoever…

The Republican policy of “just say NO” in the last 3-years and 8-months, to anything President Obama proposes, especially job training and increases in support of educational spending, support for Pell grants, so more people will have access to higher education, were all met with a resounding “NO!”

A well-informed, educated electorate is antithetical to the goals of Republicans… keep them dumb and let them earn a minimum wage; feed them GOD and AMERICAN EXCEPTIONALISM, so we can control them and get their votes…

So now you have some realistic idea regarding why we are becoming, educationally, a virtual 3rd world country…

@John Wilson
I enjoy watching liberal implode whenever God is mentioned. Can you point to any other cultural shifts that would lead to the destruction within our cities?

Its not the global economy that is holding our schools back. It is not racism that is holding back our school under the leadership of a black president. It is not the rich holding our schools back as we spend more per student then most other industrialized nations. It is not lazy teachers as our children spend more time in school then most other countries.

Rather the common denominator is the decay within our culture is the increase of secular morality being taught. However, you obviously see something different within our culture that is causing decay. I am interested to hear it.

@H.E. Pennypacker....Your view of liberalism and what has happened are totally disconnected. Let's look who has been in power for the last three decades: conservative Republicans - 18 years, Democrats - 12 years. You have not provided any evidence to support your comment except for your irrational hatred.

@John Wilson
Again, your ignorance dominates your discussion.

If you where intellectually honest you would realize that the Dems had complete control of government for 2 years and did nothing. Including the inability to pass a budget for one of those years and a Democratic party in the senate blocking the ability to vote on anything from the house.

The student loan bubble is possibly the next big crisis our country will face, yet, you appear to want to increase that bubble. Also, as we have increased higher education to the detriment of high debt on our young people, the poverty rate remains the same.

I find it odd that while the Dems are the ones pandering to the poor, uneducated and government dependent as its voting base as you claim it is the Republicans that want people to be dumb. Doesn't a poor welfare recipient favor the Dems over the Republicans? Aren't the Republicans the party of the 1%?

You are spinning so hard, you can't even keep your own thoughts from twisting.

@J.B. Schmidt...Whose G-d are you talking about? Whose religious tradition are you talking about? What do you really know about secular humanism. Is the only reason you do what is right and moral is because the threat of eternal punishment or a means to buy yourself into paradise? Can a secular humanist, atheist, agnostic, Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim, Sikh, Mormons or for that matter Jews, be good people and moral? What about sectarian differences within Christianity, which one is the right one?

I agree with Lyle on this one, keep God out of the public schools, our society is far too diverse , I certainly don't want Catholic kids being pushed Protestant ideology.

@J.B. Schmidt...Your religious and moral decline as the causality of decline is factually incorrect. Since 1981, the economy has shifted, putting more people in poverty, dissolution of families and devastation to the middle class. I guarantee you that the pocket book speaks much louder than the message from the pulpit. Did it ever occur to you that the reason for rejecting G-d and religious morality in the schools, is that people are actually more knowledgeable, educated and understand the workings of the world? To quote Bill Clinton: "It's the economy, stupid!"

@Lyle
I never included anything about teaching God (any God) in public schools. It is the removal of all thing related to God. Banning prayer, challenging devotional groups and demanding that all reference to a God be eliminated from school life completely. You and Pennypacker both said that our society is to diverse for religion to be taught, I agree; however, why then are schools allowed to teach the secular humanist morality that is at odds with the teachings of various religions as well? While I understand that parents usually have the option of sending their children to private schools that share the morality of the family, why are tax dollars being spent on teaching a morality that is not shared by the entire population? Especially when poor families may not be able to send their children to the private school that shares their morals.

@Lyle
Nice, its the stupid people who believe in religion.

That explains nothing however. If what you are saying is correct, " that people are actually more knowledgeable, educated and understand the workings of the world" why the current decline? Why the lack if significant drop in poverty? Why the increased urban decay? Most importantly, why the drop in test scores since 1980?

Is it not possible that the increase in secular humanism has led to man believing he is god, able to harness the powers of the world and society in ever increasing selfishness? As a result the 'get mine' mentality has flourished to the detriment of culture.

@J.B. Schmidt....Sorry, but you missed the point about secular humanism.morality. Secular morality establishes respect for others, reinforces the rule of law, teaches the same moral imperatives as religious morality; no murder, no stealing, no lying, etc. It even goes beyond religious morality by teaching not to discriminate based on religion, race, ethnicity, age, gender, sexual orientation, socioeconomic status, disability, conditions at birth, etc. What do you find wrong in that message? I know that some religionists claim that humanists see man as the ultimate expression, but that is not a shared principle. There are a number of Christians who identify themselves as Christian Humanists. They believe that the principle of helping others is primary to living the Christ tradition.

@Lyle
Again, you use rhetoric to describe religion, "It even goes beyond religious morality by teaching not to discriminate based on religion, race, ethnicity, age, gender, sexual orientation, socioeconomic status, disability, conditions at birth, etc.". Are you saying that Judaism does not contain proper morality to address those subjects? Or that it is contrary?

I understand what secular morality teaches; however, if it is better, then please explain the increased decline in our urban areas? Especially since these are the areas most heavily impacted by the teaching of the public school system. Those areas of our country most beholden to public education and government dependency are some of the worst areas in our country. Shouldn't they be improving if secular morality has successfully replaced the religion once present?

As for Christian Humanist, that likes having a an Obama Conservative. It is simply a person who wants all the roses and rainbows with none of responsibility.

@J.B. Schmidt....As scientific knowledge and access to such knowledge has increased, religious interpretation and understanding plays a smaller part in explaining the world and our existence. Why if we have a secular understanding, why do we need a religious understanding of the same phenomena; often in contradiction to the known scientific explanation? Does G-d make the sun rise in the east each morning or is it better explained by the rotation of the earth from east to west, with the sun relatively stationary to the earth?

As far as religionists being stupid, I don't share that view. Hell, my own daughter who is a Phi Beta Kappa scholar is in the midst of becoming a Reform Jewish rabbi. What I do find stupid is when religion prohibits critical thinking. I can think of no better example than religious fundamentalists of any religious tradition, who completely reject any other alternative explanation or other religious traditions for that matter, based on their interpretation of religious teachings and traditions. I don't eat pork or pork products, shell fish or milk with meat; but, do I want to force my beliefs and traditions on others? Absolutely not. There isn't any secular reasons for me to remain kosher except for a tradition that goes back for millennia. It is just what some Jews do.

@Lyle
Personally a religion without pork is far more extremist then any other. :)

If, "As scientific knowledge and access to such knowledge has increased, religious interpretation and understanding plays a smaller part in explaining the world and our existence." Shouldn't we see our societal ills become less? You want to make the claim that we are headed is more intelligent direction, maybe more enlightened even. Then why the increased decline?

@J.B. Schmidt...Let's look at the religiosity of the members of the inner city communities in Milwaukee. The Latino Community are overwhelmingly devote Roman Catholics. Inner city African-Americans are devote Christians and the center of their communities is churches. Therefore, it can be concluded that it's not a lack of religiosity of the groups, but the lack of real economic opportunity.

To answer your question concerning Judaism; yes of course we have moral imperatives. To be precise there are 613 commandments, which were isolated by the great 13th century Jewish thinker and philosopher, Moses Maimonides. However, these commandments (mitzvot) had been Jewish Law from around the 12th or 13th century B.C.E. Your own messiah was a man who grew up with these moral imperatives and taught such. However, all of the mitzvot is only applicable to those of us who are a part of the Sinai Covenant.

I will reiterate; "It's the economy, stupid!"

@Lyle
Would you not agree that those inner city Christians are actually Christian Humanists. People who want all the flowers of heaven, but none of the earthly responsibility. Considering the crime and broken homes of both blacks and Hispanics, they aren't living by to many of Christ's teachings.

JB –

Facts are rather important to me… that is ONE cultural difference that clearly differentiates THEE from ME.

“It is not racism that is holding back our school under the leadership of a black president.”

President Obama is half-white – a white mother and a black father – and yet YOU call him a “black president.” Bi-racial is an interesting concept, as is the simple concept of President Obama…

CONTRIBUTORS TO AMERICAS DECLINE:

Devaluating the arts, science, mathematics education, while extolling FAITH

American Exceptionalism

Devaluating Professional Teachers

Divisiveness in America

Meaningful, living wage, employment opportunities

Racism

Vulture Capitalism

Extraordinary greed

Shifting from a manufacturing to a service based economy

Offshoring

Lack of accountability from a bought-and-paid-for congress
ALEC

Citizens United

These are just a few areas that you may care to focus on, if you are honestly looking for causes and potential solutions to some of America’s more salient challenges, all of which have quite an impact on education and our future standing in the world.

Alternatively, you could slip on your newest 2nd century loincloth, stroll down to the nearest intersection and shout at the top of your voice, AMERICAN EXCEPTIONALISM, while PRC, India, South America, Asia, etc., eat our lunch and we all become Neanderthals…

J.B. Schmidt....Two points that you bring up about Christian Humanists reflecting the beliefs of the inner city and that increased knowledge has led to an increased decline; I will attempt to address.

It would appear that you and I may hold entirely different views on Christian Humanism. These Christians do not see themselves as the ultimate expression and in many ways hold a much more fundamentalist belief. Although religion is integrated into there everyday lives, there are other cultural variables. Women in this community are much more likely to attend church and other religious activities. This is consistent with the matriarchal society that has evolved. They have a different interpretation as to a number of Christian ideological principles not shared by mainstream European Protestant denominations. Christianity, as practiced, by a number of African-Americans focuses on achieving a better place in heaven with G-d and Jesus. This was a consistent theme with Roman Catholics prior to the Reformation. Humanism no, afterlife rewards yes.

Your expectation that increased knowledge will necessarily will reverse the decline is inaccurate. Knowledge and economic presence are entirely two different things. Follow me on this: If function is conditional on Social Economic Status and economic resources, then dysfunction is an indication of the absence of favorable conditions, such as higher SES and lower economic resources.

JB –
The Democrats did not have complete control of the government for the first 2 years; the Democrats had 57 members in the Senate – 2 of these seats were being actively contested and these folks, Roland Burris for Obama’s seat and Al Franken for Norm Coleman’s seat… could not be sworn in because of ongoing litigation.

It is completely disingenuous to say that the Democrats had COMPLETE CONTROL OF THE GOVERNMENT FOR TWO YEARS AND DID NOTHING… It has been increasingly difficult for the Democratic Party to get any bills passed through the Senate, as the Republicans have either threatened a filibuster or just went ahead and filibustered. It takes 60 votes to overcome a filibuster, and get something passed through the Senate.

I will applaud the intellectual dishonesty, once again, of my good Christian friend, JB…

The only party fighting to get the poor job training, welfare-to-work, Pell Grants and an education is the Democratic Party – Republicans just say, “NO!”

Republicans, on the other hand, want their base to be kept poor, disabled and uneducated; the base, FL, Al, AZ, MS, LA, GA, AR. SC. TN, TX, KY, UT, OK. These folks have had so much GOD and AMERICAN EXCEPTIONALISM pumped up their derriere that they cannot see straight. These are the poorest and least educated, residing in the Bible belt, maintaining their fundamental Christian faith, low wages and rigidly voting REPUBLICAN… just the way the Republican Party wants them to be…

@Lyle
Your offer is intriguing. If can fit it into my schedule, I will let you know.

It's Steve ®

Public school, public state college

Janitor fired after showing up for work with a stand with Walker bumper sticker on her car.

Hundreds call in sick with fake doctor notes when protesting at the capital

Creating a scam insurance company, then "negotiating" their districts must use scam insurance company to provide benefits, over charging for said benefits with zero competition.

What a noble profession you defend.....

Walker didn't go far enough in dealing with union goons. He should have done what Reagan did with the union thugs air traffic controllers....fired their lazy asses and replaced them. Unions are poison to a free nation, every part of my being hates the concept of a union, they are rotten to the core.

Steve, was there proof that the janitor was fired only because of the bumper sticker? Because that could be grounds for a wrongful firing suit.

I don't agree with fake doctor notes either. I place it at about the same level of disingenuous behavior as sliding ALEC union-busting into what was publicized as a "budget repair" bill.

If we had a national health plan, we'd eliminate the middleman insurance company altogether.

Teaching is a noble profession, I agree.

Proof?

Her boss did giver her the option of putting the sign (not a bumper sticker) on the floor of the car (not displayed), or parking across the street. She refused. She was sent home and told not to report for work the next day. After she got a lawyer involved, she has since been invited to return to work.

It seems pretty clear that the firing was related to the pro-Walker sign...

Yes there was proof. And there you just went and stuck in an ALEC to justify teachers breaking the law in your head. Give it a rest, unless you just do it for the pure entertainment of us laughing at you.

@H.E. Pennypacker...Rhetoric is one thing, actions are quite another. In both Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union, unions were prohibited when Hitler, Lenin and Stalin came into power. Therefore, your response lacks credibility.

Again, I could cite examples of Hilter's support of trade unions and cite the collectivist/marxist origins of trade unions in Europe and how they were infiltrated into the USA, but why waste my time with Mr. Ruble? Why bother casting pearls before swines....continue on with your altered view of reality Mr. Ruble.

The answer to education's problems lies exactly where no one wants it to be...the public... who doesn't want to pay for the schools, a media that provides violent hypersexualized "entertainments" to children in the name of "freedom of speech", an over concern for contact sports rather than academics, and parents who want to be "buddies" with their kids rather than parents. Schooling is hard work...for everyone. Parents who take their acting out kid's side against the teacher/school don't help either. U-Tube is out of control too. Teacher's reputations are being ruined by computer savvy kids, but they're minors so they get away with it.

***************

So to summarize. Dump more money into schools. Censor the media to remove content you feel hypersexualizes children. Limit or remove contact sports from schools. Insist parents not be buddies with their kids. Penalize minors who "ruin teachers reputations" with the computer.

You spent about 60% of your post ( the portion not C&P'd above) laying out in detail why people shouldn't blame teachers, and then the remaining 40% offering bullet point complaints, a significant portion of which has to do with the challenges teachers face in the classroom.

In essence, once again, the focus from an "educator" is mostly about teachers and how students and parents make it difficult for them to do their jobs.

And you probably still wonder why teachers don't get as much respect as you think they should.

@Dave Koven -

The only nation on earth that spends more on public education than the US is Switzerland. Every other nation on earth spends significantly less on public education than we do, and yet they attain much higher results. And you want us throw even more taxpayer money into the pot for public education?

Apparently, you and the rest of the blue fisters were absent the day that they taught about efficiency and effectiveness in public education!

@Randy
Are you trying to tell me that the dysfunctional families in the inner city has nothing to do with the get mine mentality? That getting involved in drug dealing is not about getting mine? Killing your rival or killing for theft is not about getting mine?

I would argue that the neighborhoods in the suburbs are much more willing to work together for the better of the community then the inner city.

@J.B. Schmidt...What you don't see from your all white neighborhood in Greendale is the entrepreneurial spirit is alive and well in the inner cities. With general unemployment at somewhere around 25% and unemployment for youth is around 50%, these people are not lazy, but circumstance has forced them to be entrepreneurs in the Underground Economy. Everything from collecting scrap, to drug dealing, to sidewalk retailing. Although cash is preferred, there is a strong barter system. The so called dysfunctional families have been forced into a place that few if any would have wanted. The early generations that settled here during the "Great American Migration" came here for jobs and escape the Jim Crow of the pre civil rights South. The period of greatest immigration came during WW II and shortly thereafter. Generations have been born here and worked here. When the Reagan Recession hit in 1981, this group was left out in the cold. The greatest devastation came under a Democrat, Jimmy Carter, when they forced a change on families receiving AFDC. It effectively removed the father out of the home, leaving a single parent home. From that point on, the conditions headed downhill.

I will present you with a challenge. Why don't you come with me and we'll go into the inner city and talk to people. Establish your opinions from first hand experience. I'll take you to meet Gwen Moore and Lena Taylor. I will also take you into some of the schools. What do you say; are we on?

Lyle, did you realy just claim that "drug dealing" is "the entrepreneurial spirit... alive and well" ? Really? OMG !!!!

@Bewildered...If it isn't, then what is it?

@Randy
If all religion is allowed equal opportunity, I am fine with it.

Once again, Dave, you support my contention that when it comes to addressing issues other than their own, personal gripes about teaching, most "educators" have nothing of value to offer. More money isn't the answer and it never has been. See MPS as a point of reference.

BTW, I've experienced all the things you griped about related to work - including various unflattering opinions about what I do for a living offered up by those who've never done it. I'd say the same goes for most folks I know and, no doubt, the majority of folks who've spent anytime in the work force. Most of us just realize how foolish and out of touch we'd look if we griped about it at every opportunity.

Doesn't look like you're capable of focusing on anything but perceived insults to your profession, Dave. Pointless, really. Lyle's already taken the focus away from teachers being the problem and has suggested that there are other issues that need to be addressed, seriously. Everything with you comes back to the teachers, how awful they have it, how they don't get enough respect, aren't paid enough and what needs to be done to make their jobs easier.

Again, if you wonder why teachers often times aren't respected as professionals, you don't have to look much further than that. You demonstrate an attitude I've seen most often amongst blue collar laborers rather than one consistent with true professionals, such as doctors and lawyers.

Unfortunately, you're not alone in that regard. I've seen much the same expressed here and elsewhere by teachers. So maybe it's too much to expect that you or others in the same position as you were can step away from the resentments and self-focused attitude long enough to actually focus on the issues that plague districts like MPS in a serious fashion.

Dave you absolutely don't get it at all. All you know is a reactive defensive posture.

It's not about you. It's not about teachers. Even Lyle has made that clear in his heading. You're so narrowly focused you can't see the forrest for the trees, so you're of absolutely no use in this discussion.

That being said, if you want to behave like and align yourself with blue collar workers while being respected as professionals (I'm sure the guy unloading trucks at the distribution center would like a secretary too, but he's not gonna get one) you're fighting a losing battle. You want praise for doing your job, none of the responsibility, all of the sympathy, more of the money and perks and we're just supposed go along with that because you're a "teacher".

You folks never learn. The world doesn't revolve around you.

As for doing your job, I'd offer you the same opportunity if I could afford the risk of losing all my customers to your bad attitude. I don't want you anywhere near my job.

I wish it was that easy, Dave. Like it or not, my taxes go to guys like you. Turn some of that down and I'd take you at your word.

Keep in mind that John Wilson believes that Michael Moore is "great!"

John Wilson is in some serious need for facts about the Koch Bros:

http://www.kochfacts.com/kf/

@Dave Koven -

Hoffa has taught community college courses in the past and he didn't complain about a single thing, unlike your constant and nonstop belly aching!

@JRH -- Community college courses are not exactly the same as working with 'at risk' inner city elementary students.

The difference is I'm not on here whining about what a raw deal I'm getting. Only in the public sector is it okay to whine and bitch about how awful you have it to your customers. And teachers seem to do more of that than just about any other public sector employee.

Case in point: you.

@Randy1949 & @Dave Koven -

Two names for you guys - Jaime Escalante and Joe Louis Clark. They should be the standard, not the exception! Instead the standard is cry babies like Koven!

Koven should be ashamed for all the whining he's done on this blog, but Hoffa knows he's not.

@Dave Koven -

Maybe if you were actually highlighting problems, we'd pay attention. But as McBride has pointed out above, all you're doing is playing the victim card here! You're making it out to be all about you, the teacher, instead of making it out to be about the kids.

Jaime Escalante accepted the challenges he faced without any bellyaching and he had it far worse than anything you could have possibly ever experienced!

I don't think you'd find a single conservative that would bad mouth Escalante. But you know who did bad mouth Escalante - his fellow pro-active union teachers for making the rest of them look bad.

Dave K - Geesh, do you need to whine so much? I suspect your benefit plan has counseling? Don't do it here.

BTW - if college teaching is so great, why did you leave it? No wait, don't answer that.