News, Discussion of the Walker Recall

Read the live blog run by Patch editors throughout the day, as organizers turned in hundreds of thousands of signatures to recall Gov. Scott Walker, Lt. Gov. Rebecca Kleefisch and several state senators.

On Tuesday, organizers of the , presented hundreds of thousands of signatures to the state Government Accountability Board.

Patch had four editors in Madison on Tuesday, providing up-to-the-minute coverage on recall happenings, including the turning in of signatures to recall Gov. Scott Walker. 

Continue the discussion in the comments section below.

Zuma Bound January 18, 2012 at 06:27 PM
@ poli sci, "the disingenuous professor and professed neutral arbiter" poli sci wrote: "As for my party affiliation I have none, I am not for or against one party or the other." Sorry, "Professor", your partisanship is peeking out from underneath your protestations of neutrality. Your own words beg to disagree. Why not just give it up. Your cover's blown. The people of Wisconsin are just exercising their Constitutional rights here, nothing more, nothing less, all of your purported "angst" over it, notwithstanding. It is democracy in action. Get used to it. AND get over yourself. You're just not THAT insightful or deep. That said, at bottom, you and your partisan leanings are pretty obvious. In any event, I've dispassionately called them like I see them. I think I can live with your disapproval.
Zuma Bound January 18, 2012 at 07:11 PM
@ poli sci poli sci wrote, in pertinent part: "My point that you have seemed to miss is that the Stare Diesis [sic] in the end is the better path when it comes to politics. You may or may not agree, but base it on the premise not on an emotional hatred." I have an idea, poli sci. Before you start employing legal doctrines like "Stare Decisis", maybe you should go to law school first. Or, at least look up their actual meanings, if not their correct spellings. That said, poli sci, how does the legal concept of "Stare Decisis" apply in this particular context, other than as a part of the tortured logic that you have brought to bear here? It is a legal concept which applies to legal cases, not to political issues. While your layperson's sense of the applicability of the doctrine of "Stare Decisis" (Latin for "to stand by that which is decided) is amusing, I do understand why you thought that it might apply. That said, even if one was to view the doctrine of Stare Decisis as a philosophical construct, instead, it still wouldn't mandate your viewpoint. Even in the law, the doctrine is not always determinative, for the courts occasionally find it necessary to overrule cases which have been wrongly decided or contrary to law and/or principle. The people of Wisconsin, poli sci, are simply pursuing their Constitutionally mandated right to recall certain elected officials, and they have every right to revisit the decision of the electorate in this way, to right a wrong.
poli sci January 18, 2012 at 07:32 PM
I have never said the people are incorrect in pursuing a recall. I am simple stating that the status quo is the better outcome as opposed to recall after recall and a continual election process. In short: "Stare Decisis" (Latin for "to stand by that which is decided) seems to be the point exactly. The people do have every right to a recall, just as we have many rights, but the exercise thereof in given situation is not always the prudent one. As an example, saying what were once described as “fighting words” to a group of folks that ends up as a riot may be exercising your freedom of speech and court protected, but not a real great idea. The point if I may to keep it simple for you, is let it stand until the next election may be the better course of action. There are other bigger fish to fry, spending money on a recall depletes valuable resources from other bigger and more important fights, such as the presidential election. That is the bigger fish in this case
Keith Schmitz January 18, 2012 at 08:06 PM
The opposition to the right to recall, from the very people who take the right to firearms and pervert the crap out of it by pumping more of them into our streets. And we are supposed to listen to these people?
skinnyDUDE January 18, 2012 at 08:07 PM
Walker a greater success in 1 year than Doyle was in 8. The unions have beat the war drums and the trained Monkeys actuay think this about them lol No matter want happens Walkers reforms will hold as the the republican house remains intact reguardless. So gridlock at this point is better than the Doyle days. That being said I think Walker will make history and win again and again..
Bob McBride January 18, 2012 at 08:11 PM
When we start experiencing casualty counts in the triple digits daily, maybe your comparison will make sense, Keith. You children abused the use of the toy. The adults, eventually, are going to have to take it away from you. Trust me, it will happen. You may be surprised to see those on your side complicit in it if they suspect it might be used in kind by your opposition.
Zuma Bound January 18, 2012 at 09:24 PM
Okay, skinnyDUDE, you win today's prize for incoherence/butchery of the English language.
Zuma Bound January 18, 2012 at 09:32 PM
@ Bob McBride Jeez, Bobby, you are one insufferably smug and misguided wingnut SOB, ya know that? Try to remember something, Bobbo. The guy patting you on the back, and saying, "Atta boy" to you, so enthusiastically, is you. You're not quite the fountain of wisdom you clearly think you are.
Zuma Bound January 18, 2012 at 09:35 PM
Walker liked recalls when he benefited from one. Now that he is the subject of one, not so much. All the rightwing/wingnut/teabagger/Republican hysteria [*cough*/STEVE/*cough*] and oily snark [*cough*/Bob McBride/*cough*] in the world isn't going to change or elevate the "it's all relative", hypocritical, "do as we say, not as we do" nature of the rightwing/wingnut/teabagger/Republican worldview regarding this recall. Nothing new. It's what the Right always does. It likes recalls, filibusters, etc insofar as it is benefited by them. When the political winds change direction, it is against them, and the scurrilous attacks begin.
James R Hoffa January 18, 2012 at 10:52 PM
@Zuma Bound - And you honestly believe that the left is any different? You must be living in a huge cloud of ignorance and denial!
Zuma Bound January 18, 2012 at 11:21 PM
@ James R Hoffa Well, Jimmy Boy, the point that I was making is that, regardless of any parity between Right and Left that may exist with respect to such things, the hypocritical, "it's all relative" shoe is on the Republican/wingnut/teabagger foot right now. Instead of trying to deflect, why not just admit that? Walker benefited from a recall. Now, he's going to go down because of one. The great gnashing of teeth on the Right over the Walker recall that is taking place RIGHT NOW is therefore, undeniably, the height of self-serving hypocrisy. Whether or not the Left "is any different" is the subject of a different conversation. Man up, Jimmy, and deal with the issue at hand.
James R Hoffa January 19, 2012 at 12:45 AM
@Zuma Bound - Last I checked, there was only a recall effort, but no election that Walker benefited from in gaining his position as Milwaukee County executive. And just as is the situation now, people are stepping to challenge the person being recalled, just as Walker did in Milwaukee Co. What's so hypocritical exactly? I support Walker and I'm all for having the recall election as quickly as possible, as not a single potential candidate stands a chance in hell of defeating Walker if the election is made about the issues and the records of the candidates running. The Dems current frontrunner, Barrett, utilized Walker's reforms in addressing his budget in the city of Milwaukee. You may want to take note of this, as this is representative of a real hypocrisy, and not the crap that you're spewing. And that's the situation Zuma. Instead of living in the land of the Daily Kos, you may want to try joining the rest of us in the consensus reality for a change.
$$andSense January 19, 2012 at 01:58 AM
Amen Steve, anem to that.
Zuma Bound January 19, 2012 at 02:21 AM
Still deflecting, I see, Jimbo, not to mention living in a "la la" land in which Walker survives the recall election. Just out of curiosity, do you even understand what hypocrisy means? In any event, Jimbo, "[i]nstead of living in the land of [Fox News] and Charlie Sykes, you may want to try joining the rest of us in the consensus reality for a change," whatever the hell "consensus reality" means. Jeez, wingnuts and their incoherent and arrogant self-righteousness. Good night, Gracie. Hope you remember this exchange when Snotty Scotty goes down, down, down.
Zuma Bound January 19, 2012 at 02:24 AM
One last thought, Jimbo. If you think that Snotty ("Yeah, Rush, I would estimate that the recall proponents will file around 720,000 signatures. . .") Scotty is sweating bullets right now, you really do live in "la la" land.
Zuma Bound January 19, 2012 at 02:26 AM
One last thought, Jimbo. If you think that Snotty ("Yeah, Rush, I would estimate that the recall proponents will file around 720,000 signatures. . .") Scotty ISN'T sweating bullets right now, you really do live in "la la" land.
Zuma Bound January 19, 2012 at 03:05 AM
@Jimbobobbityboo Here's to "living in land of THE Daily Kos", my misguided wingnut brother. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/01/18/1056047/-Total-Solidarity,-Wisconsin-Style-?via=siderec
The Anti-Alinsky January 19, 2012 at 03:33 AM
@$$andNonsense How much do you know about negotiations? Typically when the sides don't agree they head to arbitration. Neither side really wants to go there since it is pretty much a 50-50 chance of winning if it is just wages. Add in a big change like insurance carriers and you are pretty much guaranteed to lose.
$$andSense January 19, 2012 at 10:05 AM
You still haven't answered the question. A simple yes or no will suffice. You are a police union shill, aren't you?
jt January 19, 2012 at 10:17 AM
in other words al, you took a management posisition that required that you leave the union and now your turning your back on your former union brothers and sisters. it's people like you that are the problem here in wisconsin.
jt January 19, 2012 at 10:23 AM
al, those are private sector statistics. why don't you show the public sector statistics for those same states?
morninmist January 19, 2012 at 01:17 PM
Here is a very powerful commentary. Best to read it all. http://www.bluecheddar.net/?p=17701 Jan 19, 2012 Today there were tears in my eyes as I watched boxes of Recall petitions being carried into the GAB office ... I am a WI Republican, and have watched with horror as the TEA Party infiltrated our Party of Lincoln, ..Lincoln had said “All that serves Labor, serves the Nation” and “There is no America without Labor, and to fleece one is to rob the other” I served in the USAF under Reagan, and know he was proud to have been a Union President of SAG, ..I finally....got to meet our Governor. When I did, I told him of our Republican concerns of what he was doing cutting BadgerCare and then my boss told him I was a veteran. So, I asked him “Will you give the gift of assurance that all of the Veterans living in our State Veterans Homes will have the free photo ID so they can vote in the next election?” Gov Walker stuttered a “Well, uh” as I reminded him we Veterans all served to protect our Freedom & Democracy…and he was moved very quickly off my unit without answering. 6 veterans were outside, denied the chance to hear him speak , by the State Patrol at the doors. No wonder today I cried… We will do well to rid ourselves of this TEA Party in WI…no real Republican would EVER dare take the right to participate in American Democracy by not providing the very heroes who risked all in service to America the means to vote! .
morninmist January 19, 2012 at 01:25 PM
OH James. Walker took advantage of the Milw recall and you know it. He made a big speech saying how proud he was of the people of Milw for giving their voice to the recall. Yes he benefited from it and only you and those living in la la land will deny it. Your gig is up James R. Hoffa. ........ James R Hoffa 6:45 pm on Wednesday, January 18, 2012 @Zuma Bound - Last I checked, there was only a recall effort, but no election that Walker benefited from in gaining his position as Milwaukee County executive. And just as is the situation now, people are stepping to challenge the person being recalled, just as Walker did in Milwaukee Co. What's so hypocritical exactly?
Zuma Bound January 19, 2012 at 05:31 PM
@ morninmist Thanks for sharing that, brother. Powerful, indeed. Sorry about the Packers, by the way.
morninmist January 19, 2012 at 07:29 PM
Last month Walker did address this issue by saying the numbers were unreliable. But he had no problem taking credit with Press releases when WI gain some jobs the few months of his administration!! He is a hypocrite! mariskepearl Mary Englert Walker needs to address this: Wi Lost 3,900 Private Sector Jobs in Dec. While the Nation Added Jobs #wiunion bit.ly/w7YCWb 12 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
morninmist January 19, 2012 at 07:32 PM
I wish all the folks on Patch would take time to read it and reflect upon it. About the Pack- they have a grand team and will be back next year. Take care.
The Anti-Alinsky January 20, 2012 at 02:04 AM
No, I am not a police union shill. I didn't agree with Governor Walker's view that since Police and Firemen put their lives on the line all the time they should be exempt. I wrote to my state Senator and told her as much. 99.9% of Act 10 is good legislation, so I can live with it.
$$andSense January 20, 2012 at 03:08 AM
@anit-alinsky Last question is, are you an exempt full time police officer or fireman? 99.9% of ACT 10 of my tax bill isn’t good enough when over 50% of my local taxes is mostly for the blue badges since our fire dept. is all paid on call volunteers with no union. I cannot live with 99.9% when I pay 50% a year for police services that our Village board has their hands tied by your favorite governor’s exemption that gives these people a pass. Give me a break. I pay less than $200 a year for our public works department for people who actually do something like plowing and salting streets, chip brush curbside, maintain our parks, maintain our public buildings, sweep our streets, etc. etc. Our cops have never put “their lives on the line “ since our community was incorporated 90 years ago. Sure, they may have pulled any number of their myriad of weapons when confronted with a potential “threat”, but the truth remains none have ever had been shot or threatened with something more than a base ball bat. Stop with the “911 hero”crap.
The Anti-Alinsky January 21, 2012 at 09:05 PM
I am wondering if you read the entire post. I will explain it here and now. I am not now, nor have I ever been a policeman, fireman, a member of any union representing policemen or firemen (actually, I've never belonged to a labor union, but I figured you needed a definitive answer), or any group associated with policemen or firemen. And, having said that, I am appreciative everyday for the work they do. In my municipality there is not a lot of dangerous action. On occasion you hear about someone going a little nuts with a gun, or a high speed chase, but that is fairly rare. Regardless, I am glad that they are there to handle situations like that. And just to put it in perspective, I would much rather have the 99.9% of Governor Walker's legislation than the 0.0% of Jim Doyle's legislation I agreed with.
$$andSense January 22, 2012 at 03:23 AM
I want it all. If Walker is going to sweep the floor, I want every corner and every scrap cleaned up. No Chicago/New York/Philly style of corruption based on campaign donations or lobbying exempting any public employee. For the record, I have nothing against cops or firemen. We need them. How their services are provided could be handled a lot more cost effectively if they didn’t have their GD’d unions. It should be entirely up to the taxpayer to decide how it is provided. If the law of the land is to get rid of public unions, so be it, but then do it right and end it all, no exemptions or excuses. Whether or not you or I agree with Walker’s style, I am not going to shout, beat a drum or vote in a recall election. I am far too old for this and have sat through the stupidity of too many other administrations from both sides of our ridiculous “two party system” to be able to make a clear differentiation of one from the other.


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